EAW WW1 - ground objects

[Moggy]

Ray

Regarding machine guns as AA guns:



My dad, Biggin Hill, sometime in late 1940.

[rotton50]

One of these day I have to pull out my father's photos from on board the Fletcher class destroyer he served on for 18 months.

His primary role was chief torpedoman but he spent a lot more time manning a 40mm AA battery.

Some of his photos include kamikaze dives and Japanese men being rescued from the water.

I really ought to scan and preserve this stuff. If only I could catch up on EAW requests.

[Moggy]

I really ought to scan and preserve this stuff. If only I could catch up on EAW requests.

You really definitely do.

Not at the expense of getting this project done of course



I'm up to Tmod200 ingetting the object folders sorted with screen shots.

[EdLaz]

I know it's a lot, but I've seen the objectives and an interesting one came to mind: to protect or destroy them, depending on which side you choose.

It would be forts like Vaux and Douaumont.


Fort de Douaumont was the largest, strongest, and most modern fort in the ring of defenses protecting Verdun, France. Built in the 1880s–1890s, it featured thick concrete armor, rotating gun turrets (155 mm and 75 mm cannons), underground galleries, and space for hundreds of troops. It was seen as nearly impregnable.
The Battle of Verdun began on February 21, 1916, when the Germans launched a massive offensive to "bleed" the French army dry by attacking this symbolically important area.

February 25, 1916: German troops captured the fort almost without a fight. Due to a French strategic mistake (they had removed most guns and garrison troops, believing fixed forts were obsolete in modern war), only about 57 men were inside, and the fort was poorly maintained and unguarded. A small German patrol entered through an unsecured entrance and took control easily. This was a huge embarrassment for France.
The Germans then used it as a shelter, observation post, and ammunition depot.
May 8, 1916: A catastrophic internal disaster occurred. German soldiers (likely cooking coffee or warming food with improvised flames near flamethrower fuel) accidentally started a fire that spread to stored grenades, flamethrower fuel, and ammunition. This triggered a massive chain-explosion inside the fort. Between 650 and 679 German soldiers died instantly from blasts, fire, smoke, or collapsing tunnels. The explosion created a huge crater and destroyed much of the interior; the bodies were later sealed in a gallery that became a memorial chapel/ossuary.
For the next months, the fort endured relentless artillery bombardment from both sides (French heavy guns up to 400 mm tried to retake it).
October 24–25, 1916: French forces, under generals Pétain and then Nivelle, launched a successful counterattack and recaptured the ruined fort after intense fighting.

The extreme destruction in the lower photo resulted from:

Months of continuous heavy shelling by both armies.
The huge internal explosion in May.
The muddy, cratered terrain of Verdun turning into a wasteland.

The Battle of Verdun lasted until December 1916, causing around 700,000 total casualties (killed, wounded, missing) with no decisive strategic winner. Fort Douaumont became a powerful symbol of the war's horror and futility.

[rotton50]

You really definitely do.

I had an idea.

My daughter is engaged to a retired navy chopper pilot. (Second marriage for both and two kids each).

Right now he's still looking for a second career, probably as a civilian project manager at the Norfolk Naval Base (Largest in the world and about 15 minutes from his home).

I'm going to ask him if he'd do some scanning for me while he's waiting final word.





Just curious, are you finding many appropriate TMOD's?

[Moggy]

Ed - saw the pictures of these forts, and also wondered if we could set up something like that. Verdun being good example.

Ray

Just curious, are you finding many appropriate TMOD's?

Yes, quite a number will be useful. Some may need some light editing for period - trucks for example.

[rotton50]

I've been thinking about ships too. I mean how much difference would there be between a WWI and a WWII cargo ship?

Maybe size or more smoke stacks, which would be an easy edit.

Even some of the capital ship models might not take much editing.

Heck we could turn the USS Long Island into the HMS Argus pretty easily. Now THAT would make a great addition.

[EdLaz]

An example of at least some aircraft carriers from that era; at least I can get a list of them right now.

United Kingdom

• HMS Furious

• HMS Argus

• HMS Campania

• HMS Engadine

• HMS Ben-my-Chree

• HMS Vindex

• HMS Nairana

Germany

• SMS Ausonia (not completed as an aircraft carrier)

Italy

• Italian seaplane carrier Europa

Russia

• Orlistat seaplane carrier

France

• Seaplane carrier Foudre

[EdLaz]

Ed - saw the pictures of these forts, and also wondered if we could set up something like that. Verdun being good example.

I have no idea, but we can do what we did with the zeppelin hangar, or something similar; we can buy the skins or make them and stick them directly onto the structure like Rotton did.

I've been thinking about ships too. I mean how much difference would there be between a WWI and a WWII cargo ship?

[Moggy]

Sorry Ed, accidentally knocked out a bit of your text when editing the post. Re ships etc.

I'm sure you and Ray are right. Marginal differences between basic appearance of WW1 and WW2 ships etc.

[EdLaz]

Sorry Ed, accidentally knocked out a bit of your text when editing the post. Re ships etc.

I'm sure you and Ray are right. Marginal differences between basic appearance of WW1 and WW2 ships etc.

It doesn't matter.

Minor differences in the material's echoes, low speed, and the lack of protection to maintain them aren't a big difference; they're just minor things.

[Moggy]

Ray, I have put in your folder R502015ObjectSetup.zip which contains subfolders for each of the objects in the 2015 target setup.

Each subfolder has the 3dz, tpc and pcx files, the tmod.dat, and screenshots from the 3dz editor of each mod/mog and destroyed version.

Many of these will be useable in the WW1 scenario.

[rotton50]

Edit:

I took a look at some of those TMOD's and was surprised at how much work I did on them.

To be clear I only built a few myself, the rest were collected from around the EAW world. What I did was fix up r/s issues and improved some skins.

However, most of my effort was building new damage models and making side specific version of the skins, as well as specific TMODs.

On the damage models, you'll notice with vehicles, ground aircraft and ships there are identical main models in multiple slots but different damage models that are quite a bit different. This way when you attack a column of vehicles, aircraft or ships, when you look back you don't see a line of identical destroyed machines. I think I did some train cars too but I can't recall for sure.

Also, as the frontline moves, the same TMOD's will change sides, mostly just a different skin with different national markings but also models of ground model aircraft, vehicles and ships will change.

Not sure if you're aware but you can also make TMODs disappear based on the year. For instance, if you fly over Guadalcanal in 1942 you'll see invasion craft storming the beach but it you switch to 1943-44 the same area is empty.

You can figure out how to do it by looking at the TMOD.dat editor.

[rotton50]

Doing some much needed spring cleaning and I came across notes I made back when I produced SPAWFinalCut.

Using trial and error i figured out how to stack TMOD's. It's all ship related but it might come in useful and it might inspire you to give it a try with land objects.

For instance, you could use the same method to put AA guns on the top of buildings.

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For stacking TMODS -

Note: for forward and back, negative is forward of the base TMOD, positive is behind the base TMOD. For side to side, negative is to the right and positive is to the left.


Destroyer -
Front turret high: -40 from center
Front turret low: -50 from center
Rear low: 34 from center
Light AA: 51 from center

Destroyer escort -
Front turret: -34 from center
Light AA rear: 44 from center

Patrol boats -
Front MG - 14 from center
Light AA rear - 9 from center

Light Cruiser -
Light AA front: -66 from center
Turrets: 5 back from center, out 6 and -6 from center
Mid AA: -4 from center
Rear AA: 61 and 75 from center

Heavy cruiser -
Light AA: -76 from center
Turrets: 8 back from center, out 8 and -8 from center
Turret: -20 from back turret, out 8 and -8 from center
Mid AA: -2 from center
Rear AA: 65 from center and 81 from center, 5 and -5 from center

Battleship -
Light AA front: -115 from center, out 5 and -5
Light AA rear: 115 from center, out 10 and -10
Light AA mid: -4 from center, out -5 and 5
Small Turrets: 12 from center. out 12 and -12
Large turrets: -30 from center and 24 from center

Submarine:
Sub gun: 14 from center

Anti-Sub ship -
Gun: 30 from center

Tug -
Gun: 27 from center

Sub Tender -
(TMOD 268) turret: 55 from center
Light AA: 30 from center

Freighter (TMOD 316) -
Boxes: 35 from center, -35 from center, out 4 and -4, 35 from center, out 4 and -4
Light AA: -54 from center

Cargo Ship (TMOD 322) -
truck(TMOD 148): -38 from center, out 5 and -5
truck(TMOD 148): -20 from center
truck(TMOD 148): 38 from center
truck(TMOD 148): 29 from center
Light AA: -55 from center

Freighter (TMOD 343) -
Light AA(TMOD 270): -54 from center
P-40(TMOD 145): -28 from center, out 6 and -6, and 28 from center out 6 and -6
Jeep: 28 from center out 2 and -2, and 33 from center, out 2 and -2, and 39 from center, out 2 and -2

Freighter (tMOD 342) -
Light AA(TMOD 271) -35 from center
Any Aircraft - -43 from center out 7 and -7, 41 from center out 7 and -7

Small tug pushing cargo ship -
out 12 from ship, 7 degree angle.

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[Moggy]

Great stuff Ray.

My only experience in stacking ground objects was making the PAW seven part carriers work in EAW. That was more luck than judgement.